Simplifying Estate Planning and End-of-Life Tasks With Adam Zuckerman
Adam Zuckerman:
I already have a will. I wrote it 30 years ago. I'm good to go. The reality there is that when you draft a will, it is for your current situation. for tomorrow, but the reality is it has to adapt and evolve with you over the years. And odds are that your situation and your wishes, your desires, for whatever reason, for the external implications of it, have probably changed over the years.
Ryan Kolden: Welcome to Retirement Simplified, where we focus on making complex retirement concepts simple. I'm your host, Ryan Kolden. Join us as we talk about the strategies and tactics that can help you achieve your retirement goals.
Disclosure & Disclaimer: Ryan Kolden is an investment advisor representative of RPG Family Wealth Advisory. Kolden Wealth is a DBA of RPG Family Wealth Advisory. The opinions expressed by the host and or guests in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Kolden Wealth or RPG Family Wealth Advisory. No information on this podcast should be construed as as investment, legal, tax, or financial advice.
Ryan Kolden: Today on the show, we have Adam Zuckerman. Adam is the founder of Buried in Work, a leading e-commerce platform specializing in estate planning organization, end-of-life tasks, and estate transitions. With a deeply personal motivation stemming from his experience managing his father's estate, Adam is dedicated to simplifying these complex processes for individuals and families nationwide. As an Eisenhower Fellow, attorney, as well as MBA, Adam brings a wealth of experience to his role, combining legal knowledge with entrepreneurial vision to drive innovation in the field of estate planning. Adam's mission is to empower individuals of all ages to navigate the intricacies of estate planning with confidence and ease. Through Buried in Work, he seeks to revolutionize the way people approach end-of-life preparations, ensuring that everyone has access to these resources they need to secure their legacy and protect their loved ones. Adam, glad to have you and welcome to the show. Ryan, it's great to be here. Thank you very much. No problem. So, Adam, what is kind of your origin story on what led you to start Buried in Work?
Adam Zuckerman: Yeah, it's a untraditional path for many ways. I'm an attorney. I have an MBA. I've worked in big companies like Anheuser-Busch and Discovery. I was actually the entrepreneur and futurist for the company, which means that it was anything from GoFix file sharing. Do we have somebody jumping off the top of Mount Everest in a wingsuit? How do you make the show better? To everything in between, even investing in startups. A great deal of my career has been spent across the line of legal and business but starting companies and helping companies grow and The industry that I'm in today is not an industry that I thought I'd be in five years ago It was a very personal story. My dad was over at my house woodworking with me in the basement He walked up the stairs and said I'm tired and when he says he's tired It's a little bit different than if you or I did we probably mean we need a nap he means I have to go to the doctor's office because he's had leukemia at that point in time for six and a half years and And what was about to happen was somewhat unpredictable and unforeseen in some ways and very predictable in others. What I mean by that is he went to the hospital and 12 days later he passed away. So it was predictable in the sense that he had had leukemia for quite some time. He was in remission, but it was unpredictable and that nobody thought that it would come that fast. The family thought he was organized. I was named the executor on his estate. My mom was still around. And what we soon came to realize is that what is oftentimes the case for many other people was the case for us, where one person's perception of organization really doesn't equal that for other people. And I started that pathway that many other Americans have, where the average estate takes 570 hours to administer. I took very copious notes of what I was doing, what I was learning. And when I met with my mom's financial planner and showed her what I was up to, the response was, quite simply surprising. It was, I've never seen a state transition as comprehensive as this and we have to give it to other people. So we took some time to put some notes down, gather everything up, build a website. And what we put together in a matter of a week had over 10,000 visits. And that unintentional website turned into buried in work, which is what it is today, which is designed to simplify estate planning and end of life tasks for as many people as possible. Because quite frankly, the last time you want to learn is when you need it most. So that's my quick back story.
Ryan Kolden: So one of the things that we were actually chatting about prior to recording was the concept of the sandwich generation. And I've actually never heard anybody use that phrase before, but. It really kind of hit home with me, and which was, you know, just to explain it the way that you said it, which a significant portion of of Americans, middle aged Americans, or having to support their parents financially, as well as their children. And just like you said, you weren't really prepared for it when it happened. And I can kind of relate to this because as you know, when I was in my early 20s, I had firsthand experience with this as well and saw a close family member have to deal with the fallout from the death of their parent and an improperly executed estate plan. And the biggest thing that I took away from that was the mental burden that it places on somebody that's on top of that having to deal with the loss and grieving of a family member while having to take care of work, their family, and things like that. So just kind of that brings us right into the next point, Adam, is what happens when somebody neglects planning for these types of things, estate planning and end of life planning? Who does that affect?
Adam Zuckerman: Well, it's a difficult question. And the reason why I respond that way is that you're unique, just like everybody else. So some estates, if there's no estate plan, you know, it's relatively easy for other people. It's the most complicated, heart-wrenching thing because family members start arguing and Assets go missing. It can be very complicated. The reality is that whether you believe you have an estate plan or not, the technical truth is that you do. And what I mean by that is that if you don't have a will, if you don't have a trust, which are the foundational elements of most people's estate plan, and it goes far beyond that, which we can talk about, your estate is simply going to follow the process that your state has dictated by the local regulations and laws into state. So the question is, are there financial implications? Absolutely. Do things have to go through probate that could have avoided it? Absolutely. But there's also a mental toll on people that is one of the things that we want to focus on the most in that The last time that people should be learning what has to happen in this estate transition process is during that process of grieving. You're sending people on a scavenger hunt to find information to figure things out that with a little bit of effort would significantly reduce that process. So that's a long answer to a short question.
Ryan Kolden: Right. And that kind of leads into the next thing is when should people start thinking about estate planning? And I know it's going to be a wide range of things, but, you know, does someone who is, you know, maybe single, 30 years old, you know, maybe has half a million in assets, is that someone that should even be, no kids, is that someone that should be thinking about estate planning? Or is it something that only people with families should think about? Who should be getting an estate plan in place and when should they do it?
Adam Zuckerman: Yeah, let's first define what an estate plan is. And the question there leads to the overall picture of, are you just trying to figure out how to most efficiently transition your assets after you're passing? And if that's the case, then odds are, if you want to play the actuarial tables, you're not going to need something until you're after 55, 60, 65 years of age. But the reality is that nobody knows what's going to happen tomorrow. And that if you have any assets, literally a shirt on your back, you should be identifying what should happen to you. And if you want to expand an estate plan beyond that traditional asset transition into what we believe is comprehensive estate planning, you need to look far beyond your assets. You have to look at what happens to you in the event of incapacitation. So if you can no longer advocate for yourself, who in your family, who of your friends, is going to step in and be that proxy for you to help carry out decisions that you might want to have somebody that you know making those decisions for you. That leads to advanced directives and powers of attorney, whether it be medical or financial. But for us, we say if you are 20 years or above, you should start thinking about this. You don't have to go out and create an irrevocable trust or a revocable trust You don't have to go out and create a 50-page will that says, you know, every single thing down to my, you know, the wheels of my car go to this individual. But by taking these steps in the beginning to start having that foundation in place, by organizing your information so if something were to happen to you, you're just making it easier on your heirs and your loved ones. So long story short, if you're 20 years or older, if you have any assets, you really should start thinking about what that estate plan is going to be.
Ryan Kolden: And just to recap, the basic components of an estate plan, can you let us know what that is? I believe you said it was a living trust, a will, a power of attorney for both financial and medical, and is there anything else that
Adam Zuckerman: You know is part of that basic estate plan Yeah, so the first thing you want to do is have a will you need to make sure that it's legally binding in your jurisdiction there are baselines that effectively travel from state to state to state and if you Execute a legally binding will in one state is oftentimes recognized in other states around the country check with your local attorneys but you want to make sure a that your will is legally binding so a Do you have the proper signatures? Was it executed in a fashion that was possible or proper? Did you need a notary? Did you need witnesses? Were you of sound mind? Were they of sound mind? Were they related to you or not? All of those, those trials and tribulations. Once you have the will in place, the recommendation is to start looking at your advanced directives. That's your living will. It's your healthcare proxy. It's your healthcare agent, your power of attorney, so financial and medical. You can go beyond that. We believe that you should have a plan for end of life. So what would you like to have happen to your physical body in the event that you pass away? You should start thinking about, do you want to have a funeral? If so, who should speak at your funeral? Do you want a coffin? Do you want to be cremated? Do you want a celebration of life? All of these different things go into it. After you do that, you should be talking to an attorney because you shouldn't be trying to create a trust on your own. And then you can decide based on your specific situation, do I need irrevocable trust? Do I need an irrevocable trust? Most people don't need an irrevocable trust as an aside. And if so, what are the benefits of that? And then as your estate increases in value, you can start looking at some of the more complicated and detailed and nuanced versions of trust to really protect you and your wishes so they're carried out in the way that you want them to be in the event something happens to you. That's the core concepts of comprehensive estate plan transition. And with that, the other thing that is very important that is the complementary bit of information is that you have to present your family members, your loved ones, your executor, your administrator with the tools and resources that they need to actually carry everything out. So that means designating the payable on death beneficiaries on your bank accounts. It means making sure that your account information is accessible and known to them. It means that they understand how your bills are paid, where they're paid from, what your debts are, what your liabilities are. And there's a whole laundry list of things that we can talk about in that respect too. But it's a lot more than just having a will.
Ryan Kolden: Right. And One of the common things that I mean, I think people will be able to just sense the answer to this based off of just talking with you already for just 10 minutes. But when I speak with people, one of the biggest misconceptions I encounter about estate planning, you know, these are what people are saying to me, right, is that it's only reserved for the ultra-rich, which could be the furthest – is the furthest thing from the truth. What are some common misconceptions that you encounter with estate planning that people get wrong?
Adam Zuckerman: Yeah, I think that that's probably number one is that either it's only for the rich or it's something that I don't need now. The reality is you want to get on top of it as soon as possible. The second thing that pops up often is, I already have a will. I wrote it 30 years ago. I'm good to go. The reality there is that when you draft a will, it is for your current situation, for tomorrow. But the reality is it has to adapt and evolve with you over the years. And odds are that your situation and your wishes, your desires, for whatever reason, for the external implications of it, have probably changed over the years. Your personality might change. Your desires, your intent of, I want this to go to this person in the family, likely changes as well. So you really have to go and update over time and revisit. It is not just a moment in time. And the other thing that, quite frankly, a lot of people don't understand is that they think that having just that one document or two document, it really sets things up, that everything's going to work out. And the reality is there is that having the document is great. But if your family members and your executors and your heirs and the people that are going to be involved in the process aren't aware of those documents and can't find them, then it's almost as if those documents didn't exist at all. So estate planning is for everybody. You need to keep it updated, and you have to make sure that the people that are going to be impacted are aware of your activities at the same point in time.
Ryan Kolden: OK. And the last kind of, I would say, technical-based question I have before shifting gears into talking about how people can get estate plans set up. But you may have mentioned it briefly, but could you explain again what the difference between having a will versus having both a will and a revocable living trust because that's another one that I get where someone says, You know, hey, I've updated my will. I got it done, you know, maybe a year ago. All I have is a will. I don't have a revocable living trust. What value does having both of those documents or missing the trust do for somebody?
Adam Zuckerman: The number one thing that it does is it gives you privacy. So wills have to be filed in the local jurisdiction where the individual passes away with the court. A trust, though, does not. So what many people end up doing is they set something up called a pour-over will, where they have a will that says, this is what I want to have happen to my assets, to my estate. And upon my death, I want all of my assets to automatically go into a trust. That trust is a legal entity, is then processed, without the court necessarily having to have involvement to publicize. And a lot of people, that's just number one. I don't want people to know what my assets are, who gets what. I want it to be a private affair and that's why you put together that trust. The revocable trust and their irrevocable trust, and there's many other different types. Literally, you can come to the website if you want. We've got lists of dozens of them. And this is why attorneys should be involved when you create them, have different benefits. So there's a slot, for example, we were talking about this before a little bit. That's a spousal lifetime access trust. It's an irrevocable trust. That's an estate planning tool that's designed to allow married couples to transfer their assets out of their combined estates while still retaining access to those assets. Kind of complicated, right? It really depends on who you are and the situation that you're in, but effectively think of it this way. The will is going to say, I want this to go to this person, I want this to happen to me when I pass away. The trust makes it so you have tax benefits that you might not otherwise have, and higher net worth individuals, and we can talk about this on another podcast that goes very, very deep, provides advantages that the average American might not necessarily need to take advantage of. Okay.
Ryan Kolden: Moving gears into, you know, someone starting to realize, hey, maybe it's time for me to get an estate plan in place. With everything, all services and businesses shifting online now, there's, you know, a ton of options when it comes to getting your estate plan done. So, what should somebody consider when deciding whether or not their estate plan should be created online or whether it should be via an attorney or actually done by themselves?
Adam Zuckerman: There's the entire spectrum DIY to DIY mine to attorney based solutions out there We believe that For the vast majority of people they are better served if they work with a professional that is going to help them Online tools are great for organization, but you oftentimes don't get the personal attention and the result that, quite frankly, a competent, experienced attorney can provide or a financial planner can assist. If you are single, if you don't have more than one marriage, if you only have one set of children or one or two children, it makes it a lot easier to do a will on your own. The second that you hit a situation where you have a more complicated asset base, asset classes that are shifting, if you have multiple residences, if you have mixed and blended families, we highly recommend that you go and visit a attorney. What online tools can also provide, though, which can actually save you money before you visit your attorney, is the organization. So on average in the United States, an estate planning attorney costs between $150 and $400 an hour. That's a lot of time. If you sit down with them just to go over and explain to them, I have three kids, two wives, I've got six cars, everything else, that's time that adds up very, very quickly. Some attorneys, they have packages, but those packages are also flexible in how much they cost. So you can use online tools or online packages, checklists. Heck, we have them for free on our website as well. We have products also that you can buy that help with this. But if you go into your attorney's office with all of your information organized and say, this is what I have, this is where it is, this is what I want to have happen, they'll then be able to step in and pick up that organization journey for you, adding their knowledge of the situation, adding a few extra questions, and then giving you a better product for less money. So it's not necessarily a black or white, this or that, but for some people there's oftentimes a blended approach that works out really well.
Ryan Kolden: Okay. And finally, just to wrap kind of things up, I want to talk about Buried in Work. Can you tell me what the mission of Buried in Work is and what you help people accomplish?
Adam Zuckerman: We want to simplify the estate planning organization process as well as end of life tasks. On average, it takes 570 hours to administer an estate as already mentioned, and we think that that is quite frankly offensive. I don't know about you, but I don't have 570 hours just laying around. So for people that want to get educated, we've got a lot of free resources, checklists, guides, all the way down to end-of-life tasks such as, how do I contact this specific company like Amazon? What do I do to close down an account? Or after you've gone through one of the checklists that says, identify all of somebody's past residences, here are all the links to every single database in the country to search for unclaimed property. We want to just simplify that process. In the event that you need help, we have directories to connect you with service providers. And then we also have games. So when I was in the hospital with my father, we started talking about, hey, let's have a conversation. Tell me one more story about when you were a kid. Tell me one more story about grandpa. Tell me one more story about your first love. And that turned into a card game to help people just get to know their families better. And then that led into another game called Nothing Left Unsaid, which is that really quick, rapid fire 126 questions of, do you have a will? Do you have a trust? Who needs to be notified? What do you want to have happen to you if you can't ask for x, y, z on your own? So you can get through some of these questions that if you didn't have a state planning, it's going to make that next step in phase easier. We've got checklists that say this is the 50, 60 steps that you have to do after somebody dies that people don't know, because you don't know until you go through it. And then on the other side of the equation, We really just want to help people. Oftentimes, we'll get inbounds from service providers that say, hey, we want to serve our clients better. What do we do? And we create content for them. Oftentimes, people come to us and say, hey, how do I do XYZ? And we'll make a checklist for them. So if you are out there, if you're listening, if you have a problem, send us an email. Odds are we can either point you in the right direction, or maybe you'll help a lot of other people out, because you're definitely not the only person that is experiencing the problem that you're going through. So test the mission.
Ryan Kolden: Awesome. And Adam, before we wrap up, Where can people learn more about Buried in Work or how to contact you?
Adam Zuckerman: Yeah, pretty easy. BuriedinWork.com. We're online and come visit the website. We're pretty accessible. It's not just me. There's a bunch of people that are involved. So if you reach out, odds are you're not going to get me, but BuriedinWork.com.
Ryan Kolden: Awesome. And do you have any last words that you want to impart with the audience or leave them with?
Adam Zuckerman: Start. If you don't start, you're going to find yourself in a situation that you don't want to be in. Every single day, 10,000 Americans turn 65. By the end of the decade, there will be more people that are 65 and older than under 65. And the number of people 65 and older are doubling. For the sandwich generation, there's people in the late 30s, early 50s, in between that range. 15% of them are already taking care of their parents and a family member at the same point in time. And that's only going to get worse. It is not an easy process to gather all this information when you need it. If you can start to have the conversation before you do, it's going to make your life easier and it's going to make everybody else's life easier that's around you. So come to the website if you want, we'll help you out. If not, we can point you to directions if you need something else, if we don't have it. But the only thing that I can say is just start because you'll thank yourself later.
Ryan Kolden: Well, awesome. Adam, it's been great having you on the show. For anybody who is looking to learn more about Buried in Work or what Adam does, I'll go ahead and put their information and their link in the description or the show notes. So that's a wrap for today. Adam, again, thanks for being on the show. Take care, everybody, and speak to you next time. Hey, real quick before you go, thanks for listening, and please remember to hit follow on your podcast player. You won't miss any episodes, and it helps support us bring you the show. Today's show notes and resources are available to you by clicking the link in the description. The opinions and views expressed here are for informational purposes only and is not tax, legal, financial, investment, or accounting advice. This material is educational in nature and should not be deemed as solicitation of any specific product or service. All investments involve risk and a potential for a loss of principal. Should you need such advice, please consult with a licensed financial, tax, or legal professional. Neither host nor guest can be held responsible for any direct or incidental loss incurred by applying any of the information offered.
